You are correct when you say that beliefs cannot be based on observation. Observations help a great deal, especially as it concerns the human condition and sin, but truth is grounded in the Word. Experience can bolster truth but it is not monolithic.

My view of complementarianism is based on years of study with a great deal of practical experience; although the experience is not final proof. I grew up with a mother for pastor, in a circle of churches led by women who became domineering with their “egalitarian” viewpoint. Our home was confusing as were the other homes of these “pastors”. Today, I know of few sons/daughters of these people who serve the Lord today. By nature of this arrangement in churches and homes, godly masculinity is eschewed and a feminism of sorts comes in. Hard words but generally true.

The point is though, that I too can speak from experience. But in the end we must run to Scripture based in a proper hermenutic that sheds our cultural presuppositions.

For the most part, I think we all know our parents very well and can see the fruit of their relationship. In previous generations much more was hidden, but I think this is much less true today. Unfortunately for the complementarian crowd there is some abuse of the concept in certain groups, thereby rendering the discussion difficult for us who seek the proper balance.

Keep up the great comments! The tone is generous and kind.

anyway, I don’t want to badger you, I know your heart is good and you are doing what you feel is best in a desire to obey God.

Shine on sister

And then later you say that “I have seen too many women and men feel horribly horribly trapped and hurt in otherwise loving ‘free’ complementarian marriages…”

If what you’re saying about subjectivity is true, then you can’t draw conclusions from others’ marriages either.

You may OBSERVE that it is freeing or beautiful or whatever and it likely works for them but to say that you know how it is when you’re not married is not wise.

I trust you ladies will find godly men who are “leaders” because that’s what you want – and that’s fine because you seem healthy enough to make it work well. But it is so important for me to mention yet again that Biblical evidence is there to suggest that the “male leader, female obeyer” model is not the ONLY way to view it. And honest, intelligent study will prove that out.

AT THE MOST GENEROUS, you could say that either complimentarian OR egalitarian models are supported in scripture for both marriage and church dynamics. This is so important because i have seen too many women AND MEN feel horribly horribly trapped and hurt in otherwise loving “free” complimentarian marriages thinking that if they do anything else they’re disobeying God.

I know you disagree and that’s fine but after that last comment I really felt compelled to point that out.

In Genesis, we see what our sin nature will bring us:
Genesis 3:16 ESV To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.”

And then in Ephesians 5, we see this beautiful imagery of marriage:
Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands. Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
Ephesians 5:22-33 ESV

Even Paul says it is a mystery! That, it is… Thanks for the perspective on submission. It is a hard thing to grapple with, but once in it, I see (and will prayerfully know someday) that it is a beautiful gift from God.

And to — Waiting for a godly guy who respects you is worth it.

MOST DEFINITELY! I am currently being pursued by a very Godly man and I’m like, wow! 1st time for everything… it’s so… amazing to be pursued in a way such as this… so yay! What a great post!

I was done anyway and probably won’t engage the issue with you in the future since obviously both of us are set in our positions

if you ever want to seriously consider the alternative views of scripture you know where to go.