Hi Anna,

This is an awesome post! Just want to let you know there is a growing movement of Western Christian women who are adopting modesty as a spiritual act of (daily) worship. How we dress is the first witness many (and sometimes only) people see.

~Anna C.

Veiled Glory

[...] Christian Women Unite! January 29, 2008 — cbrunette This post is stupendous! Another Wordpress Anna rocks it out for modesty: We talk about modesty a lot in the church, [...]

One rule is always consistent: less is always more.

Less you reveal, the more you gain in quality relationships.

I, for one, am so glad that all the women at my church dress very modest. In fact, for so long, I just took it for granted until you step into the rest of the world.

…I need to focus on your eyes, the words you say and the way your mind thinks in hopes I can see your heart.

I have always been breathless when I see a beautiful heart of a woman…

*edited by Anna*

My two teenage daughters are part of that growing movement. My oldest daughter has even learned to sew and makes her own dresses. They provide a great Christian witness not so much in an Arab world (for them), but in a secular one where s*xuality too often takes precedence over spirituality.

Thanks for the post.

Thanks for speaking out, Anna, although I’ve not heard this subject spoken about AT ALL in the church over the past twenty years. In fact, current fashion trends in the British culture—even in the church—are a great stumbling block to brothers in Christ that no one is willing to address. Women young and old dress for maximum visual impact, as if it really doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks. Men who criticize such styles are prudish, up-tight, fashion police who’s minds must be in the gutter.

Blessings,
Bill Lollar

thanks for posting this. we often forget that the American church offers a huge testimony to the rest of the world. This testimony not only includes modesty(which is very important as you have shown) but many other things. When our books and televisions are full of messages of “prosperity” and “self-esteem”, the rest of the world easily detects the bankruptcy of our spirituality.

It’s SO sad that we as women have learned to focus solely on our outer beauty. It hurts my heart to know that we, as immodest American woman, are destroying the outlook foreigners have of Christians. Is it so difficult to cover up and have respect for yourself? (generally speaking, of course). Not to mention…immodestly doesn’t do much for keeping the male population pure, does it?

Thanks for the post.

true but…

women in the arab world may find anything short of a burkah [sp] to be “immodest.” so i am not conforming to their standard. likewise, the most modest bathing suit would be completely inappropriate in the office.

some one will always be “led into sin,” no matter what you wear – or don’t. and i know a few women who dress very modestly yet undo that with their behavior.

our job is not to measure the length of our skirts, or pile t-shirts under tank tops, but to honestly examine our motives when buying clothing and when getting dressed.

i have it on good authority that god is a lot more interested in the content of our hearts that our closets. and if your heart is right, your wardrobe will follow.

[...] 30, 2008 I’m curious to know what you ladies feel about this. I was going to blog about it on my blog but thought I’d get some good conversation [...]

a few questions -

whose definitions of modesty are we meant to adopt?

at what point do women become real people and not just objects to be judged?

are men subjected to the same standards?

where does a healthy respect for the body come in or should all women always feel guilty about their bodies?

These aren’t excuses in promotion of immodesty, but questions that reveal that this isn’t a black and white issue that can easily be solved by just telling people to be modest.

I really appreciate your comments, everyone. Here are a couple of responses:

Tali: I agree with you; the root of the matter is the heart. That is why I focused on an internal motivation for modesty, rather than outward specifications. I find that many times, we create so much debate over what constitutes modesty that we can no longer discuss it in a constructive way. There is no perfect rule for what is modest. But there is an attitude of the heart, and a striving to know how the Lord would have us present ourselves, and a willingness to learn from godly women. These are the important things, and I believe they will lead to individual convictions about specific standards.

Julie: For your first question, see my answer to Tali. The second question is extremely loaded, so I will respond with my own question: how does modesty automatically connote objectification? Thirdly: yes, men are also subject to standards of modesty. I simply chose to address the female perspective. Fourth: guilt is not the motivation. Modesty is the most respectful path a woman can take towards God, herself, and others.

My desire in this or any other discussion of “modesty” is to focus on the attitudes of our hearts toward God, first and foremost – not on a list of rules. (Specific guidelines CAN be helpful and do have their place – I don’t think modesty is completely subjective.) But the crux of the matter is that we need changed hearts that are being sanctified in this area as in every other, and the testimony of these Arab Christian women offers another reason to cultivate this in our hearts and lives.

To answer your question about modesty and objectification. When a woman is judged by what she is wearing and not by who she is or the condition of her heart she has ceased to be viewed as a person (or child of God) and has become an object to be judged. I am wary of talk that assumes that if a woman has a good heart she will dress modestly. What I think is modest dress can often be seen as inappropriate by others. for example I grew up in a very conservative christian church in Texas. I always dressed what I thought to be very modestly. Then I moved to the midwest and soon discovered that completely appropriate clothes for hot Texas were not approved of up here. Those cultural lines are very relative. For someone to condemn me as a temptress and assume to know my heart would be false. They treated me as an object not as a person. Even worse, I once watched a documentary about street kids in the slums of Brazil. These kids were abused, addicted to drugs, forced to work at age 6, never given an education, and faced danger every day. The film focused on groups that gave this kids a chance at a better life. It was a very moving film about the power to show love to those in need. But the first time I saw it in a group one of the first responses was to ask why the mission didn’t get the girls to dress more modestly. In that beach culture all the girls wear what we in the states consider very revealing clothing., but it was perfectly normal to for their culture. The woman making that comment completely missed the point of the movie in her fixation on these girls bodies. She could only see how they dressed and in her worldview that was the most important thing. To her modesty was far more important than loving her neighbor.

And unfortunately modesty is generally about guilt. The idea is to make women feel guilt for having a body and being a s*xual being. This is how God made us and we have chosen to tell God he made a mistake. Instead of accepting who we are in a healthy way, we are taught to be ashamed and to hide our bodies. We are told we are that is the only way to be a good Christian and are therefore made to feel guilty if we don’t conform to whoever’s standards of modesty are being promoted at the moment. I am in no way promoting flaunting s*xuality or seduction, but in treating women like objects to be judged and in promoting standards meant to produce guilt instead of devotion I think the message of “modesty” as generally given has done far more harm than good.

Just to restate – what I wanted to do with this entry was to highlight another reason to focus on humility, simplicity, and modesty in our heart attitudes and how we present ourselves to others. Standards may change, but the principle remains the same – and so does our responsibility to figure out how to apply it wisely and biblically.

This does a service to believers in other parts of the world who are risking their lives for the cause of Christ. May we not bring shame to their testimony by flaunting our “freedom” in this area.

Modesty is a nice thing.
Love is a better thing.

If Modesty were a great witness, then there are better religions to join. Islam, for example.

Btw, this is from a woman who dresses modestly (not really purposely, just out of sheer habit, because walking around exposing myself and looking for visual attention doesn’t really fit well with my desire to walk behind the Good Shepherd, you know? HA~!). Nevertheless, I almost can’t help but roll my eyes at pleas for Modesty thanks to years in the hyper-conservative-Christian-world.

There, I think the subject of Modesty is taken WAY out of it’s rightful place and made to be a much bigger deal that it is. In my little sub-culture, it was one of the main subjects, ad nauseaum…

Like I said, I don’t want to be taken wrongly, here. I mean, not flaunting our bodies in s*xual ways is, er, a good thing (male or female). But anyone can dress up the outside cup. Switching from mini-skirts to denim jumpers is surprisingly…easy.

But that’s not the part of the cup that matters most. I’ve been in the dresses-only-headcovering crowds and, yup, everyone was MODEST alright…but was there Love, was there Grace…? Rarely. We were far too busy looking at externals.

I think the main point of modesty (in all its relativeness) is to protect women from being objectified, not to “keep men from sinning”; the whole sin of lust is a sin because it’s dehumanizing and evaluates people for the pleasure you can get from them as opposed to their inherent value as humans. Sadly, it’s still a “man’s world” in that the standards women are measured against are defined by and for the pleasure of men, and at least in my life defying the patriarchal standards of what I should wear is one of the best defenses I have against being objectified.

I think the main point of modesty (in all its relativeness) is to protect women from being objectified, not to “keep men from sinning”

i’ve never heard modesty presented this way and i went to a church that really didn’t focus on this kind of thing much. when it was mentioned it was definitely in the context of not “stumbling our brothers”.

Anna, if you were wanting to emphasize modesty by both s*xes, why then did you only mention women in your original post? That partly defeats the purpose and creates a false impression. This topic has been skewed toward women quite often in Christian circles, which almost allows men to get off the hook for their own attitudes and appearance. It’s not your intention, certainly, but that’s how it comes across to me. Moreover, you did not elaborate in the original post about the other attributes the Arab Christian woman stated, namely kindness and generosity. Is modesty just a good distraction?

As a Christian man, I find that “modesty” discussions only reinforce my sense that many Christian women prefer to portray themselves in an insecure, naive and idealistic light. That flatters no one and merely flaunts an easy solution to gender relations, locally or globally. This explains why some women (and men) seem to be frustrated by such talk about modesty, even when referring to internal motivations or sensitive expressions.

Jadon, thanks for commenting. I only mentioned women because I am a woman, I was reading a book about women, and I was discussing the issue for women. Just because I don’t discuss both sides of an issue, doesn’t mean that both sides don’t exist.

Also, I chose to focus on the modesty aspect of what the woman said because I found it was such a unique perspective on that. Kindness and generosity are certainly just as important, but again, this was just focused on one element.

Anna, I realize your focus was on how to be a good witness for the world and for Christians elsewhere. Women certainly shouldn’t be careless or arrogant in what they do. Yet, excluding men in the subject of this post makes women appear unfairly targeted. That sends mixed signals to women and men, which was not your aim. It is unclear at the very least and mediocore at best. What matters is how you present yourself as you approach this topic. Personally, I find it lacking from the perspective of a Christian man myself.

This was an excellent post and one that, I think, we don’t talk enough about, especially among women. While I agree that men can have issues of modesty to discuss, the reality is that most magazines at the check-out counters flaunt the bodies of women. We get so used to seeing expose bodies of women that we forget that it really DOES affect our minds in the area of purity. This desensitization to issues of modesty are not only detrimental to men, but also to a healthy Christian view of s*xuality among our teens girls (and older women!).

And, I know very well the baggage that can be associated with experiences in sub-cultures of very conservative Christians who mandate skirt-lengths and colors and head coverings, etc. However, we need to remember not to toss out the baby with the bath water. At the core of almost every extreme position Churches have propagated over the years to “protect” those in the Fold, there were spiritual lessons which should not be ignored just because we humans went to extremes to teach them. The “rules” may have seemed, may I say, stupid, but modesty IS something we should be concerned about as Christians whether we like it or not. Modesty means our focus is not on our outward appearance. It enables us and others to focus more on what we are about than what we look like. It portrays a sense of our priorities and respect. Yes, it is culturally bounded, so we do need to take culture into account before judging one another.

And where the rubber meets the road is when I need to talk to my daughter about the kinds of things she wants to wear, some of which the media portrays as “normal!” How do I explain that modesty is not only a way of making a counter-cultural statement as a child of Christ, but is also sensible, a way of protection for her both physically and emotionally. Just because we have freedom in Christ does not mean we can and should participate in everything our culture says is OK.

I followed a link here and the only thing I have to say at the moment is that one person said this:

“I think the main point of modesty (in all its relativeness) is to protect women from being objectified, not to “keep men from sinning””

and another person said this:

“at what point do women become real people and not just objects to be judged?”

Almost flp sides of a coin.

However, it seems to me that one is talking about modesty itself, the other is speaking of the “discussion of modesty” and the ‘judgement’ that goes with it.

I believe we should be able to discuss modesty as a heart matter and not a judgement. For instance, I’m not here to judge whether someone else is being modest, only whether or not “I” am being modest.

Then it seems more about honoring God and less about objectifiying anyone.

I just found your site through wordpress. What a wonderful post – and lovely blog!
Blessings to you for proclaiming the truth and honouring our Lord and Saviour!